Semiramis tells Sasi that an ally’s greatest quality is loyalty, but he disagrees, saying it’s honesty instead. What did you think of his reply? With which character would you agree and why?

Book Clubs Babylonia by Costanza Casati Discussion
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Semiramis tells Sasi that an ally’s greatest quality is loyalty, but he disagrees, saying it’s honesty instead. What did you think of his reply? With which character would you agree and why?

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I think in the world she lived in honesty might be more important. Yes, loyalty is necessary but can often be purchased.

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I think both are important but I would go with loyalty, which in the end Sasi was not loyal.

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@Paula_Walters it’s been a few weeks since I read the novel, so I’m not remembering - in what way was Sasi disloyal, do you think? I’m not disagreeing, it’s just not popping up in my aging brain.

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I agree with Sasi here. Loyalty can be self-serving to the giver, and destructive to the recipient, by depriving them of necessary information and preventing a complete evaluation in the decision making process. The sycophant goes along to get along; the honest commentator takes a risk to enable a better outcome.

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Absolutely the truth. Sometimes honesty hurts and may anger the recipient to the point of lashing out at the truth-sayer. A loyal subject will just go along with whatever the leader wants without question for the sake of self-preservation. An honest subject will point out flaws in a plan, regardless of the consequences to himself.

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I agree with Sasi the greatest quality is honesty. With loyalty, you may only get what you want to hear. Someone may not be thinking for themselves, only doing what is asked.

Semiramis exhibited honesty rather than loyalty, when, during the war, she attends the strategy meeting and gives advice as to where the climbers should attack. That honesty won the war and saved all their lives.

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While loyalty is nice, I think it is more important to have an ally that will tell the truth. The truth can help you think about decisions and whether modifications are needed. I also think that trust is important. I have been trying to determine the difference between trust and loyalty. I’m still working on that.

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I believe loyalty the more valuable. Who can say what truth really means? As we convince ourselves it’s the truth to reinforce our position. Loyalty is invaluable. Someone you can unconditionally count on, is hard to come by. And in her vulnerable position, strength is in numbers.

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I’m in the “truth” category, but I’d add that I don’t think one can be truthful if one isn’t loyal.

We got a new boss when I was in the last two years of my working career, and I liked him a lot. I was very loyal, but I also told him the truth even when I knew he wouldn’t like it. I thought that as a person loyal to him, I owed him the truth even if it was going to piss him off. If I hadn’t been loyal, I’d have protected myself and let him fail by withholding that truth.

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I agree. It becomes harder and harder to receive honesty the more power someone has, be it a politician, wealthy person or an entertainer. People are looking out for themselves either protecting themselves or trying to gain something, so they don’t provide honesty. It is such a valuable quality, but it must be appreciated or it will not be provided in the future.

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I agree with Sasi. Loyalty is an admirable quality, but people can be loyal to fault. You do not have to be loyal to be honest; you simply need to have good character and seek to do the right thing.

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I absolutely say that honesty is most important. Someone can be loyal but not be trustworthy to to anyone other than the person that seems to be important at the moment. Think about all of the times in one’s life that we ask friends or family to give us an honest answer. We don’t have to look far in today’s world to find people who are loyal to certain causes, but a lot of honesty can be missing.

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Definitely agree with Sasi, and definitely do not agree with Semiramis, especially given the current political partisanship in our country. When politicians demand unwavering loyalty over truth and threaten and take revenge against those who speak and act with honesty, our democracy is in dire straits. Loyalty over honesty will result in tyranny. I have to believe that good will always ultimately triumph over evil, but getting there may be difficult and tumultuous.