Jane feels that most “want to believe that the person you are with is good or decent,” but in her heart believes “morality isn’t an absolute; it’s situational.” What’s your opinion of this? Do you agree?
An interesting thought. My answer is maybe. In general, of course, it is immoral to kill. However, if someone is threatening the life of your child, wouldn’t you if you could?
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I want to be with good and decent people. However I had a good friend that was doing something wrong and I stuck by her. She knew I did not like what she was doing but I was someone she could talk to.
This is such a good, thoughtful question. Well, done, Kim!
In general, I do think it is situational and also based on individual values.
I have a few absolutes that would be very hard for me to excuse, for example child abuse or animal abuse. In my opinion, these are violent actions against the innocent and helpless. They are absolutes for me and not situational. However, there are other actions I don’t approve of, that I would be willing to know the whole situation before making a judgment.
Overall, I would hope that I would give others grace.
Since you asked it, what about you?
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Many, MANY, years ago there was a quiz going around:
The Sheriff of Nottingham has finally caught Robin Hood and Little John! Instead of killing them immediately, he makes the mistake of all storybook villains in simply stashing them in the dungeon. Despite their track record of heroics, there the two benevolent outlaws rot - until Maid Marian shows up pleading her love for Robin and begging for his release. Sure, says the Sheriff, if Marian will sleep with him.
She does. Robin and Little John are released. But when Maid Marian tells Robin the truth of how she earned their freedom, Robin dumps her faster than a leprous leech. Little John defends her behavior and offers his lifelong devotion if she will ride away from Sherwood with him forever.
She does. The end.
… and then you have to rank the characters’ morality from most moral to least moral. (It’s still around; you can play the game here.)
Anyway, according to my choices the result was that I believed in situational morality, and I don’t think that’s changed much over time. I don’t believe in absolutes (… or is that an absolute itself?) but in shades of gray.
That said, I do think most people - even those who are reprehensible - try their best.
I just finished (and opted not to review) Vigil by George Saunders. A very bad man (an oil CEO) is on his deathbed. An angel-like being is sent to comfort him, and at first she hates him because he feels no guilt for his actions. Eventually, though, she comes to the conclusion that “he was inevitable,” meaning that given his upbringing and his experiences over his life, he really couldn’t have done anything else. While I’m not sure I completely agree with Saunders, I do try to think that others have baggage that goes into their decision making, right or wrong, and that, as I said, we’re all doing our best.
Sorry, kind of a long-winded answer. 
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A true judge of someone’s character is seeing what they do when they think no one is watching, or when they are truly alone when they act. So yes, I would say a having a weak moral compass is situational in that those people will often take the easy way out, or allow themselves to give in to temptation and act not in accordance with their stated beliefs. Morality is situational only as far as one will allow oneself to act contrary to one’s deeply held values and beliefs.
I do think morality can be situational depending on the factors at play and one’s personal experiences.
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I feel that there are situations where it is okay to lie. But I feel some core beliefs should never be disallowed. They are any form of abuse or murder. I hope I will have the strength if ever faced with this to do the right thing. Fortunately I have never met that challenge
Thanks for the insightful answer. Also, I never knew about the game, going to use it with my friends in October when we are at a two-day book festival and are planning a very late evening talk!
I do agree we are doing our best and seldom do we know what others are dealing with in their lives, making for a lot of gray areas. It is the old story of a thief stealing bread to feed his family, while it is theft, there is a reason for the theft that is understandable. I value kindness and try to give it and understanding but I am certainly not perfect at this!
I am so jealous you were able to get a copy of Vigil. I am waiting for my copy from the library but I may break down and purchase it! I am a huge George Saunders fan, he makes me think along with appreciating his terrific writing.
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I’ll be very curious to hear what you think of Vigil once you’ve read it. Have you read Lincoln in the Bardo?
Jane is approaching mid life. I always thought midlife crises were something that happens to men, but hey….anyway, Jane is bored. And wants to change her life. So she stumbles on the excuse by seeing texts on Dan’s phone and, rather than ask Dan about them, she decides on the nuclear option and is going to blow up the marriage at the anniversary dinner that Dan booked…to impress her. So Dan is clueless and Jane is going to rock his world.
I enjoyed your long post, especially the morality story about Robin Hood. I would have to say it’s situational. I don’t think I would stop to consider the morality of fatally wounding a person to protect my kids. Maybe afterward I might consider what could have done differently, but doubtful it would change my decision.
I absolutely agree and especially with the examples she cited, from something as innocent as double-dipping a chip when no one is watching, to something drastic as murder to protect your loved ones. I believe that in certain situations, we are all likely to stray - some maybe more than others.
A post was merged into an existing topic: The Vigil by George Saunders via audio
I agree with Jane, morality is situational in certain situations. Additionally, each of us has their own moral codes depending upon where we live or have lived, what is the best course of action in any given situation.I do not believe in absolutes. If it is kill or be killed, I think it is perfectly reasonable to kill another human.
Consider animal rights. Some people believe it is morally wrong to kill another human animal for food or clothing. Others draw the line at household pets and horses. Starving prisoners at Changi prison in Malaya ate rats and bugs to survive. I like meat.
I believe in acting ethically, but sometimes ethics are fungible.