War and Peace Side Read, Week 7, July 13-July 19: Book 2/Part 3

Thanks @Karen_B1 I’ll accept that confirmation about Pierre. He’s just shy of comedic to me. I don’t suppose Tolstoy intended that. I suspect some of my judgement comes from changing sensibilities in the world.

Perhaps I’m not as far along as you. I haven’t really formed any significant thoughts about Andrey and his new engagement except that with the wedding so far in the future I wouldn’t be surprised if it never happens.

Andrei’s evolution from the boorish husband of the “little princess” to fellow smitten with a teenage flibbertigibbet (such a fun English word) has been quite a transformation. It will be interesting to see if he remains sensitive and caring or regresses to someone more like his father.

Oh, and in regards to the continuation of the Pierre saga, I was sorry to see him accept Helene back under the same roof.

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Andrei’s level of grieving seemed very self-indulgent to me, considering how contemptuous he was of the Little Princess when he went off to war. And now, as he comes out from under that dark shroud, he careens into another relationship - really, just a crush since he doesn’t know the girl at all.

I had thought earlier in the book that Tolstoy was exploring how differing paternal influences affected young men as they faced life’s trials. Pierre, with a mostly absent father, seems susceptible to whatever winds blow him next. Nikolai, with a loving but overly lenient father, seems unable to resist temptation. Andrei, with his stern, strict, demanding father, seemed to be the man with the most promise in spite of his conceit because he had the most inner discipline, but now he seems unmoored. Where next?

Very interesting reading!

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Interesting observation about the impact of the fathers!

Such a great observation and comparison between the three young men. Are there no (anti)heroes in this work? As we were first meeting the characters I wanted so badly to love Andrey and hate Pierre. At this point my opinions have changed considerably. Surely at over 1000 pages Tolstoy is going to give us someone to root for/against?

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My feeling is Andrew is so confused I am starting to feel he doesn’t know what he wants-

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First, thanks, @Lynne_G, for the warning about the hunting scene. I skipped it. Did I miss anything important in the action? I know Nikolai was with his uncle, Natasha was along, and they had a confrontation with a neighbor. Beyond that, about all I gleaned was that Nikolai thinks highly of his sister.

@Rannie that’s a very good point about the paternal influence on each of the young men. It’ll be interesting to keep an eye on that as the narrative progresses.

For me, the biggest problem I’m having is with the girls. Both Natasha and Sonya are so childish! Natasha is 20 at this point in the book, and she’s so immature! I can’t believe the very serious Andrei can stand her. @Gabi_J called her a “flibbertigibbet,” and boy, is that description apt.

But it seems like there wasn’t a lot of “getting to know one’s intended” going on during this time period and among this class. It seems like most of the marriages were based on physical attraction, status, and wealth (or lack thereof).

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The hunting chapters were symbolic of the war with France. It was hard enough to read it and since you are doing audio I would definitely not want to listen to the goary details.

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I agree about the women, Kim. I found it interesting as they were introduced how often they were described with animal characteristics. I wondered if this was part of the character development - will we see the women grow in maturity/ be seen as more than animals or does this reflect how Tolstoy saw women?

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I’m not letting the men off the hook as they seem pretty darn immature also. War usually matures a man but these guys come home from war and resume their same old acting out.

I would have thought losing a wife in childbirth and being a (albeit distant) father doesn’t seem to have landed on Andrey. We are told he had a grieving year but then he swoons over Natasha.

No, I don’t recall anything earth shattering about the hunting scene other than the graphic nature of the sport.

Has anyone read the Christmas scene yet? I think that is probably in this week’s scheduled reading. I was holding my breath against a disaster.

My temptation would be to think that Tolstoy just doesn’t write women well, but then there’s Anna Karenina. I read that several years ago as well, and I loved the book, so … ?

Believe it or not, I decided to start my exploration of the works of Tolstoy with “War and Peace”. :joy: So my comments are simply first impressions from my reading. Perhaps he wants to present the women as the men might see them? Pets, eager to please? Or unpredictable and unknowable like a wild animal? And then there were the repeated references to the Little Princess’s fine moustache (whiskers) and the upper lip that didn’t quite cover her teeth - mouse or rabbit-like - which certainly foreshadowed her fate. As I read the hunting chapter, I pondered what metaphors were lurking. Who is the wolf? the rabbit? the huntsman? Does allowing the first wolf to slip by represent the Count’s slipping control of his world? Is Tolstoy alluding to the waning days of the aristocracy in Russia and the rise of the common man? I’m sure Lit majors and those who read introductions are way ahead of me on this score, but I’m enjoying piecing together the puzzle as I go.

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Whether or not he’s foreshadowing I certainly think he is contrasting the haves and have nots. You’ve made a well stated argument for your thoughts. It’s certainly better than anything I’ve thought about.

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