How and when did you find out about the release of the FBI files from the time period? Were they at least in a digital format, or did you have to comb through reams and reams of paper as you were doing your research?
I actually filed a Freedom of Information request with the FBI when I started my research for the podcast in 2019. I wanted to see what classified information they still had about my mom. They wrote back to say they had thousands of boxes of files on Bernardine Dohrn, and it would take years and years to process them. I hired a lawyer, and fought to get those files, but by the time the podcast was ready, in 2022, we still had nothing from the FBI.
So we went ahead and released the podcast, but then a year later, we got a thumb drive from the FBI holding more than 7,000 newly declassified pages about my mother. Those files were part of what prompted me to write the book.
Do you suspect the FBI still has classified info on your mom that they haven’t released?
I know they do. They released only a small fraction of the files they admitted to having, and much of it what they did release was heavily redacted, though still illuminating in certain ways.
We also filed a FOIA request with the CIA. I knew the CIA kept extensive files on my mother after her trip to Cuba in 1969. In fact, the CIA once publicly called her “the most rabid female radical in the country.” But their response to our legal request said something to the effect of “The CIA has no files on Bernardine Dohrn. And if we did have any such files, they would be classified and we wouldn’t tell you anyway.”
How did you obtain the recording from the time?
At the moment, violence seems to be primarily on the Christian National side. Your parents turned to violence out of frustration of not being heard and of taking too long, plus the government, then as now, was murdering their compatriots. I feel that the current protest movement is inter generational and local. You do not have to march on Washington but can get noticed from your own corner of the world. Social media brings attention both good and bad. You can start a movement from your phone i.e. Me Too and No Kings. Though I am cautious, it appears that the tide may be slowly turning. As to your FOIA request, you may have to wait for another administration. Mostly likely, they are holding on to the files because they are embarrassing to the government not your parents. What do your parents think of the current protest movement. Not sure how old your kids are but do they participate. I assume some of your students do.
I think my parents are excited to see a new generation of activists lead a new wave of protest movements across the country. My kids, and my students, all participate in those protests in different ways. I agree with you (cautiously) that the tide might be turning. There are important cultural and political movements afoot. And I have a lot of faith in the next generation to create coalitions and ideas we might not even yet imagine.
I live in Portland, Oregon, where protestors have sometimes used humor as a protest tool (e.g., frog suits). The rallies have also sometimes felt more like parties. Were there similar attempts to use humor as a tool in earlier generations, do you know? What do you think of this technique? I do remember Laugh In and The Smothers Brothers, so TV comedians definitely reflected the mood (as they do now), but I don’t know if the folks on the street mocked authority as much as we do today. Thoughts?
Absolutely, humor was a big part of radical protest in earlier generations. In 1967, Abbie Hoffman and the Yippies gathered to “levitate the Pentagon” at an anti-war protest; in 1968, the Yippies nominated a literal pig (“Pigasus”) for the U.S. Presidency.
Fred Hampton, the leader of the Illinois Black Panthers, is now mostly remembered as a visionary, a charismatic leader, and a martyr, but he was also very funny. Check out his speech after he was arrested and accused of stealing hundreds of ice cream bars to distribute to poor kids in Chicago: “Even though they made me a thief, they made me a Robin Hood-type thief! 710 ice cream bars? I may be big, but I can’t eat 710 ice cream bars!”
It has been hard to watch baby boomers, who were in the forefront of social change, regress into fearful, narrow minded, selfish people. I am from the tail end of it and I apologize to my kids for the stupidity of my generation. My kids, your kids and your students give me hope. I also attend protests and it has been nice to see old hippies, young people and the occasional Republican, fighting back and being heard. Your parents upended your life, their own life and those of their family and friends for what they believed in. Not sure I could do the same, but at least I can put myself out there. I think your book humanizes your parents and shows them to be complex, flawed and loving people. Cannot wait for your next project. Thank you
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So I was not aware of the podcasts. I will be sure to find them and listen intently. I read \your book for Book Browse and I could not put it down. I was a young women in my early twenties during that time and I found myself reliving the times, the drama of the Black Panthers, the bombings, the kidnapping of Patti Hearst all reimagine themselves in my mind’s eye. I am curious, however, of the difference in your parents reaction to your questioning. Your father seemed to be more than happy to share his experiences, but not your mother. Do you find yourself closer to your Dad and how to you handle your mother’s resistance to share?
Thank you for your wise words. Feeling as I do today, election day in California, mainly, it was the first time in long so many years that I really was so torn on my voting choices. Each morning as I awake, I am disheartened by the next Trump Trauma, however, after read your statement the pendulum always swings. I have hope. I am going to print me a sign saying just that attached above my desk so I will continue to be hopeful for a return to a more calm era.
Hey Kim how about Bruce Springsteen, the iconic singer-songwriter from Long Branch, New Jersey, released a protest song titled “Streets of Minneapolis”. He wrote and recorded the track as a response to the fatal shootings of citizens Renee Good and Alex Pretti by federal ICE agents
Thanks, Carol. Glad you liked the book. In terms of my mom and dad, I actually find myself closer in temperament to my mom—both of us are more private and reserved, so in a sense I find myself better able to understand her ambivalence. The way I handle it is just by talking to her and being as transparent as possible about my intentions. Ultimately, in spite of our mutual reserve, we trust each other, which is how we were able to get deep in our interviews.
And Springsteen is a great example of protest music and using an artistic platform to demand political change. In fact, my collaborator on our musical REVOLUTION(S), Tom Morello, is on tour with Bruce as we speak, playing guitar as a special guest on the “Land of Hopes and Dreams” tour.
@Carol_N, if you get a chance to listen to the podcast, I’d definitely encourage you to do so. I enjoyed the book as well, but it was something else to hear everyone’s voices (Zayd includes a number of excerpts from his interviews, as well as archival sound clips). I missed hearing about how events impacted the kids - there’s much less about them in the podcast - and I was super glad that Zayd decided to add that material in the book, but listening to the podcast really solidified the history for me. In short, they complement each other very nicely.
I don’t have kids myself (childless cat lady) but I feel like today’s kids are less naive and less idealistic than kids were in the 1960s and 1970s. I know that’s a pretty broad brush, but do you think that’s true at all?
In your research, did you come across anything new about your parents that touched you, or made you incredibly happy to learn?
Mother Country Radicals won several awards and was on a bunch of “best of the year” lists, and Dangerous, Dirty, Violent, & Young seems to be on track for major accolades as well. When did you realize your story was going to be such a huge hit?
Thanks, Kim. The success of Mother Country Radicals was a big surprise to me. But I think it was released at a moment when people were really hungry for stories about how to resist authoritarianism, racism, war, and police violence. Unfortunately, I think we’re still in that moment, and I think there’s a real fasciation with the revolutionary movements of the 1960s and 1970s, and particularly with my parents’ story—the idea that a bunch of relatively privileged white kids were willing to risk it all to fight against war and white supremacy.